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The "privileged-bully" model you guys use really sucks for folks with useful knowledge, but who haven't spent lots of time in your little kingdom. Seems that there are a bunch of you who do anything you want, and enjoy putting others down.

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    Hey, you're obviously upset about something. I'm pretty new here, and there are things I'm still figuring out, but I do think it's a useful community. Perhaps your could be a little more specific about the problems you're having? That way you might get some explanation of the way things are, or how we could change to be more helpful.
    – endorph
    Jan 16, 2017 at 6:07
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    You have three decent answers and on upvote so far here. That's pretty respectable and many people (myself included) don't start off as successful. Do you feel like you've been put down here? I didn't see any negative comments on your answers, nor down votes. The only negative response I see in your profile is down votes on this question. What specifically has caused you concern? Jan 16, 2017 at 8:52
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    Marko, I think I see what has irked you, and I don't understand it myself. I've started a question specifically about your question so we can get to the bottom of the situation. If you are open to hearing any suggestions, I suggest patience and check back here on the meta over the next few days and then decide how you feel about Music.SE: meta.music.stackexchange.com/questions/2675/… Jan 16, 2017 at 9:05
  • Crockers Rules: other people are allowed to optimize their messages for information, not for being nice to you. You have accepted full responsibility for the operation of your own mind; anyone is allowed to call you a moron and claim to be doing you a favor. People using the rules should be able to communicate all relevant information in a minimum amount of time, without paraphrasing or social formatting. Note, that the rules do not mean you can insult people; it means you are responsible for insulting or being insulted. The rules are a discipline, not a privilege. Jan 19, 2017 at 0:04
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    @SuperQueryLad "Crocker's rules encourage being tactful with anyone who hasn't specifically accepted them"... Jan 19, 2017 at 8:56

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I started on Stack Overflow. They tend to be much stricter there even compared to Music Practice/Theory. If you look at my record of questions, none of them were ever really particularly well-received and I started to develop a bit of an attitude. Frankly, people can be jerks, and there's no excuse for that. However, responding to "jerky" comments with other jerky comments (as I've done here as well) hurts your credibility. Usually, I find, when I allow my feelings to get in the way of actually focusing on the site topic, I'm not actually focusing on the site topic. And I get my feelings hurt.

A few things to remember:

  • Most of the people on SE are working professionals and have stuff to do. Nobody's here to babysit anyone else, and that sucked for me when I aspired to be a coder on Stack Overflow.
  • We're all human, and sometimes people say stuff online that they wouldn't say to someone in person. If you've ever been online, you've said something you wouldn't say in person, almost as a rule. It's not good, or even excusable, but we all need to realize that in some way, shape or form, each of us is as guilty of abuse of anonymity as the next. A little grace would go a long way, and realize that anonymity brings out the beast in all of us, even though in person we try to hide it. But grace is the important thing, because people will blow it even when they know they will ;-)
  • A lot of misunderstanding happens on the internet, and there's reason's why. First of all, the internet is where we go when it's the end of the day and we're tired (as it should be... The first fruits of our time ought to go to what we're being payed to do) so crabby, knee-jerk responses run rampant. Also, sometimes (a lot of times) intent is not carried through the text, so something that is meant to seem like a gentle correction comes across as a snarky, hot-headed, prideful reproof.
  • Stack Exchange actually really rocks. I've found that looking back on questions that I wrote which got closed or ill-received, it was because of my misunderstanding of Stack Exchange or the topic. Not the system's fault, actually, my fault. And whether or not people could be nicer to beginners is another question, and not specific to Stack Exchange (probably better here than at other places, depending on the stack)

As for privileged bullies, all of the privileges on Stack Exchange are earned, which is what makes Stack Exchange rock. Not just any morons get to moderate. Moderators are selected by a vote, and, for the most part, are there "for life" (they're volunteers, of course). A lot of privileges are available to non-moderators, like you and me. Now, sometimes, just because we're opinionated, stupid humans, wrong decisions can be made. This isn't specific to Stack Exchange. However, when you have a problem with a way a specific issue was handled, Stack Exchange has the meta for discussion. Note "specific issue." General questions (like this one) about people being mean and whatnot are generally not helpful.

In fact, if you have a complaint about a specific way a question or post was dealt with, by all means, ask away! That's why the meta exists. Most importantly, don't give up on the system too soon. Democracy ain't all that bad.

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  • General Nuisance - My original post contained nothing 2017 considers offensive/abusive - that was not an issue. music.stackexchange.com/questions/52264/… The "privledged-bully" description is in quotes and spelled in an archaic manner to avoid offense while describing an operational setup.
    – user36052
    Jan 19, 2017 at 22:31
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If the problem is that you put a lot of effort into writing an answer to your own question and it got deleted, then I understand why you are upset. I probably would be too. But that doesn't really excuse your commentary about privileged bullies.

You didn't do your research to find out what type of question works on Stack Exchange sites. Your question itself is just not a good question for this site - and the community down voted it and flagged for closure.

When people do put others down, we actually nip that in the bud quickly, with warnings, suspensions and deletion of posts that are abusive or offensive. In that vein, please realise that your post here could be seen as rude and offensive...

But in summary, while I think the content of what you wrote is reasonable as a blog post, as someone else mentioned, it is not structured in an objective, specific way that works here.

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  • Dr. Mayhem - My original post contained nothing 2017 considers offensive/abusive - that was not an issue. music.stackexchange.com/questions/52264/… The "privledged-bully" description is in quotes and spelled in an archaic manner to avoid offense while describing an operational setup.
    – user36052
    Jan 19, 2017 at 22:26
  • And I specifically told you why it wasn't a good question- nothing to do with that comment. It just wasn't appropriate here. Putting something in quotes, though, doesn't avoid offense.
    – Doktor Mayhem Mod
    Jan 19, 2017 at 22:50
  • I apologize if my wording offended you. I made good-faith efforts for it to not be read ad hominem, and feel badly that those were inadequate.
    – user36052
    Jan 20, 2017 at 17:09
  • I waS disappointed the way this site is managed. My post was deleted by a moderator almost immediately (<2 hrs), while I was comprehensively re-casting it specifically to conform to the advice of the only four commenters who communicated. There was one conditional "VTC" (vote to close?) by @Todd Wilcox - so it doesn't seem to me "the community down voted it and flagged for closure". Wilcox himself has questioned the delete activity meta.music.stackexchange.com/questions/2675/…
    – user36052
    Jan 20, 2017 at 17:26
  • Anything off topic will be rapidly handled if flagged by the community (and to be fair, you won't get to see moderator flags, I'm afraid) and often deleted really quickly. I'm popping a fuller answer over on Todd's post.
    – Doktor Mayhem Mod
    Jan 20, 2017 at 17:40
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Marko - we know little about you - the profile is empty - so for me at least it's difficult to respond. When I started on this site, I was unimpressed by what I felt was, in some cases, ignorant (I use the word advisedly) comments and downvotes, and closed questions. Still unhappy about downvotes, given with no reasons, but maybe one day that'll be addressed. However, continuing for a while made me realise what a useful addition to my armoury this site is. Just about any questions will throw up decent answers, and sometimes it's good to see other people's viewpoints.

Yes, occasionally, I agree that stuff is done with seemingly little forethought, but being human is probably to blame for that! I'm sure your experiences (in music, not on this site!) will benefit us all, and you may well learn a shedload of stuff at the same time - I certainly have!

'If you can't beat them, join them' springs to mind. But, if you feel that you and the site are incompatible, so be it. We're all grown-ups!

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  • Tim - Marko and I had a really good chat to get to the bottom of things. I understand much more about where he is coming from, and hopefully I got across some of the reasons why things are in the position they currently are: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/52212/…
    – Doktor Mayhem Mod
    Jan 23, 2017 at 10:39
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The "privileged-bully" model you guys use really sucks for folks with useful knowledge, but who haven't spent lots of time in your little kingdom.

I've defended music.se in my answer here, so I'll be a bit less equivocal here.

I think you're right.

I don't think the anyone here has the intention of bullying - but I also don't think we do very well at welcoming newcomers, ESL speakers, those who would like to explore alternative viewpoints, and so on. There's still a bit too much of that "oooh, lets mutter amongst ourselves, and downvote and close something - that will help the site!" and not quite enough of 'hey, this person is new and doesn't quite get how the site works - let's make a friend of this person and help them!'

(That isn't to disagree with those who've said that you could also have taken a little more time to understand the site and given it a second chance - its strengths are genuine).

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  • Pretty much... I spent time - and provoked responses - enough to understand how this was working. I don't think you folks intend to be wrong-headed "rankists". The nature of M:P&T does that for you. As I wished you before... Good luck!
    – user36052
    Jan 25, 2017 at 22:47
  • @Marko my mother often sends me random internet links. A while back I got one from her entitled Pedants' corner. Before I opened it, I knew it would be a link to a Stack Exchange site - and indeed it was. I think it was EL&U, but anyway... Stack Exchange is indeed full of actively anti-social behaviour; it's very much the nature of the beast. M P&T.... really isn't so bad for an SE site. And it does have strengths that in my experience only SE sites have. Jan 25, 2017 at 23:13
  • I finally got my "click and you're done" email (after four days!). One last answer (the unanswered Sun Ra question), and I'll be leaving now. There are nice folks here (@Dr Mayhem and @Todd WIlcox, noted). I thought political sites were the worst. But for useless bitchiness, it looks hard to beat SE.
    – user36052
    Jan 25, 2017 at 23:20
  • @Marko look after yourself, and see you on the next site maybe (I'm the same name on most of them!) Jan 25, 2017 at 23:24

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